Georgia and Russia. Georgia and Abkhazia and Ossetia. What is wrong?

The European Council and USA are promoting the dem...

2008-09-02T18:34:00.000-07:00

The European Council and USA are promoting the democratic principles and sovereign status of any country in the world. In this regard, they are condemning attempts to "cut" South Ossetia from Georgia and annex it to another country's territory.

I like this statement - "Don't tease the bear beca...

2008-09-02T07:54:00.000-07:00

I like this statement - "Don't tease the bear because it may just be smarter than you". It appears the Georgians fell into the yawning trap set for them by the Russians. Each summer both sides had fired on the other, and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili decided this summer was the time to root out the separatists - many with freshly issued Russian passports - in South Ossetia. When his forces moved into the province beginning August 7, the Russian bear pounced. By all accounts, the Georgians moved first militarily. By most accounts, the Russians were simply awaiting that provocation, biding their time, with massive columns of armor ready to roar south once Georgia crossed into South Ossetia. Now that their troops occupy both South Ossetia and Abkhazia, they seem intent on remaining there as purported peacekeepers. Maybe rightly so...

All these conflicts around the world just makes th...

2008-09-01T12:01:00.000-07:00

All these conflicts around the world just makes the life of ordinary citizens more difficult. Prices for oil, food and other stuff is going up continuously anyway, and any turmoils just accelerate this trend.

I think initial reactions of the European governme...

2008-09-01T10:42:00.000-07:00

I think initial reactions of the European governments will cool down soon. It's just that they have to show that they are caring about Georgia and that they are still friends of this country, despite anything that happened just 3 weeks ago.

Yeah, right. Russia is wrong, and NATO is right. N...

2008-09-01T07:50:00.000-07:00

Yeah, right. Russia is wrong, and NATO is right. NATO troops kill children (look at today's news) in Afghanistan, which is also a sovereign country with different groups trying to get the control over its territory. But nobody is saying a word about NATO. ALl the fuss is about Russia.

EU sends monitors to Georgia after the war is over. WHere were these monitors when the war couldhave been prevented?

The problem is not about Georgia - the problem was is and will be Russia and the West.

It was interesting for me to learn bout Swiss posi...

2008-08-31T19:48:00.000-07:00

It was interesting for me to learn bout Swiss position on Georgian-Russian problem. Switzerland is neytral and is like Germany - the people of these countries are always very objectively calculating the pros and cons of everythign 9sometimes even for too long.

The answer to my question was obvious - Swiss government was not involved in any actiivites related to this conflict whiel the war was going there. And now after the war they offer their country as a place for negotiations. Purely netral state and - calculating the pros and cons. No one should think twice when the calculation is just saying that tomorrow you will hae to pay twice for the gazoline or electricity for houses and hospitals, if today you just follow the crowd and condemn Russians for their bullying.

My God, the world has been negligent about truth and it is so today. God saves us all.

I agree, and like in Middle East - endless meeting...

2008-08-31T18:27:00.000-07:00

I agree, and like in Middle East - endless meetings and conferences and all the things fall apart gain and again

It's difficult to believe that the small (of cours...

2008-08-30T18:16:00.000-07:00

It's difficult to believe that the small (of course, I mean relatively small) conflict has ignited the global debates and old verbal and diplomatic clashes between "East" and "West". The Great Game is back from where it has been sleeping. But this time the Russian Empire is stronger and more visible, and the West is crippling with its economic and financial problems, Iraq and global terrorism, and transforming expensive food into more expensive fuel.

Who will win this Game, nobody knows, but this will hurt more and more people for sure.

The solution is simple, respect each culture and traditions and try to come to compromises. But, some politicians consider themselves Gods, who create and transform this world. Change is coming soon.

And now all the diplomatic relations between Georg...

2008-08-30T16:28:00.000-07:00

And now all the diplomatic relations between Georgia and Russia have been cut, the Russians to get Georgian visas only in third-party countries
From September 8 only diplomatic representations and consulates in third-party countries will issue Georgian visas to Russian citizens, Georgia announced on Saturday. The Director of the Russian Department in the Georgian Foreign Ministry has already served a corresponding note to a Russian Embassy official.

Russian citizens will be able to get detailed information on the issue in Georgia’s diplomatic representations and consulates in third-party countries, the Georgian Foreign Ministry said.

Until today Russian citizens, arriving in Georgia, could get single-entry tourist visas at the county’s official border control points, such as the one at Tbilisi airport.

The move follows Tbilisi’s decision to break off all diplomatic ties with Moscow.

Also, only the Georgian consulate service will continue to operate in Russia, and Georgia will be diplomatically represented in Russia by the embassy of a third country, according to the country’s Deputy Foreign Minister, Grigol Vashadze. The consulate service in Russia will not, however, issue visas.

Earlier this week Tbilisi recalled most of its embassy staff from Moscow.

Georgian Prime Minister Vladimir Gurgenidze has also signed an order for Georgia to withdraw from the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) and all peacekeeping agreements with Russia.

Georgian Foreign Minister Ekaterina Tkheshelashvili has been instructed to send notes to the CIS executive committee and the Russian Foreign Ministry, as well as to the UN, OSCE and other international organisations, explaining the move.

On Thursday the Georgian parliament unanimously supported a request to the government to cut ties with Russia over what was described as its ‘occupation of Georgian territory’.

Theyjust continue the "fight of words"

The...

2008-08-30T14:24:00.000-07:00

Theyjust continue the "fight of words"

The Minister of Foreing Affairs of Georgia has asked for the UN Security Council to be held on Thursday in order to decide on actions against Russia, alleging it had breached international security by its action in her country. At a special meeting of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) in Vienna, both Georgian Foreign Minister Ekaterine Tkeshelashvili and Russian representative Anvar Azimov traded allegations of ethnic cleansing in Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Tkeshelashvili said the Security Council should act under Chapter 7 of the UN charter, which deals with non-military and military sanctions to restore peace and security.

"It is not only a threat to international security, but a breach of it," Tkeshelashvili said, referring to Russia's military involvement in Georgia and its recognition of Georgia's separatist provinces South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The minister also claimed Russian forces had conducted ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia.

"The territory previously known in Soviet times as South Ossetia is completely cleansed of remnants of the Georgian population," she said. In the buffer zone around the breakaway province, ethnic cleansing was ongoing, she added.

Russian forces had acted together with ethnic Ossetian, Cossack, and Chechen militias in killing young men, raping and driving away women, as well as destroying villages and fields, Tkeshelashvili said.

Russian representative Azimov told reporters after the meeting that there was "no evidence of ethnic cleansing" of Georgians in South Ossetia, while accusing the other side of having committed such crimes.

Stressing the process of independence for the two Georgian regions was "irreversible", Azimov said it was now up to South Ossetian authorities to deal with such allegations.

Asked when Russian forces would leave areas around South Ossetia, Azimov said that "sooner or later we will leave these territories."

In its meeting, the Permanent Council of the OSCE, the organization's decision-making body, did not formally discuss the outstanding modalities of sending up to 100 additional observers to Georgia, a diplomat said.

By Thursday evening, the Vienna-based organization will increase the number of monitoring officers to 22, a spokesman said.

The 56 OSCE members still have to agree on where in Georgia the officers will be deployed for observing the ceasefire between Russian and Georgian forces, as Moscow has so far refused to allow them in South Ossetia.

It was up to South Ossetia whether to allow in OSCE monitors, the Russian representative said, adding that according to the Russian military, "for security reasons it is not the time" to do so.

Georgia's foreign minister reiterated Tbilisi's position that any geographic limitation for monitors "cannot be tolerated."

The latest UN security council was about this: see...

2008-08-30T14:20:00.000-07:00

The latest UN security council was about this: see the article on chinavew.cn (below)

UN Security Council at odds over Georgia conflict

www.chinaview.cn 2008-08-29 08:10:18 Print

UNITED NATIONS, Aug. 28 (Xinhua) -- The UN Security Council remained deadlocked over the conflict in Georgia on Thursday afternoon after concluding its sixth emergency session on the subject since early August.

The open meeting, held at the request of Georgia, began with briefings from UN officials on the latest developments in Georgia, where the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia have gained recognition from Russia.

In his remarks to the council, Georgia's UN Ambassador Irakli Alasania said that Russia's decision to recognize the two regions was "in breach of fundamental norms and principles of international law on the sovereignty, territorial integrity and inviolability of the state frontiers."

The Russian move "directly contradicts all resolutions on Georgia adopted by the Security Council," he said.

Alasania also accused Russia of disregarding the six-point plan agreed by both French and Russian presidents, in particular by failing to withdraw its forces and predetermining for itself the outcome of international talks on the two Georgian enclaves.

"We are complying with the cease-fire agreement and fully commit ourselves to it," the Georgian envoy said. "We demand the same action from the other parties in the conflict."

Russia's UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin read out to the council the two presidential decrees signed Tuesday by President Dmitry Medvedev on the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

The Russia envoy reiterated Moscow's "continuing respect" to the six principles contained in the cease-fire agreement brokered by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, and urged the council to formally endorse them by passing a resolution.

Last week, Russia formally presented to the council its draft resolution which simply reaffirmed the contents of six-point cease-fire agreement.

Churkin also urged the council to approve a request by Abkhazia and South Ossetia to send their representatives to New York to address the council.

"Today's meeting of the Security Council cannot be fully valid without the participation of the representatives of Abkhazia and South Ossetia," Churkin said. "Without an understanding of the aspirations of the peoples of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, it is impossible to have an objective picture of what is taking place."

"We are convinced that the day will soon come when the members of the Security Council will be able to hear their positions," he said.

Speaking to reporters after the meeting, U.S. Deputy Ambassador Alejandro Wolff said that a process for the parties to talk with others "has been totally leapfrogged and hijacked by this unilateral declaration of independence and immediate recognition ..."

"We see no basis for inviting either the Abkhaz or South Ossetian representatives and rewarding them after this illegal act," Wolff said.

Belgium's UN Ambassador Jan Grauls, the council's president for this month, said there was "no unanimous support" in the council concerning their participation.

"The council will continue to discuss the participation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and will intensify these discussions in view of their participation at a more opportune moment and under a formula to be decided," Grauls said.

Editor: Sun Yunlong

Yeah, not real good...But can anybody predict abou...

2008-08-29T21:13:00.000-07:00

Yeah, not real good...But can anybody predict about what will happen to these places in GEORGIA. Seems like it's another long story about territories and independence.

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Georgia...

2008-08-29T16:45:00.000-07:00

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Georgian soldier (AFP Photo / Marco Longari)August 25, 2008, 15:18
Georgia plans to attack Abkhazia - Russia
Russia has information that Georgia is planning a military attack on Abkhazia to seize the capital Sukhumi, the Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff, Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, told a media briefing in Moscow on Monday. He said that the military potential of Georgia was being restored for a repeated act of aggression.

"We have received serious intelligence information, and we shall discuss in detail the Georgian-Abkhazian direction on Tuesday," he said.

"The information is serious. If many media outlets still see Russia as the aggressor in the South Ossetian direction, the plan for seizing Sukhumi is so clear that we shall be able to prove that Georgia was the aggressor in the second direction as well," he added.

Nogovitsyn said that according to the South Ossetian parliament, Georgia’s attack on South Ossetia claimed the lives of 2,100 civilians.

Russia is ready to provide substantial evidence in international courts that it was Georgia that initiated the aggression in the Georgia-South Ossetia conflict zone, said Nogovitsyn.

He also added that the situation around Abkhazia and South Ossetia "is changing rather quickly".

He announced the Russian side is performing peacekeeping functions near the port of Poti in strict compliance with the six principles agreed by the Russian and French presidents, Dmitry Medvedev and Nicolas Sarkozy.

He said Russia will not exceed the number of its peacekeepers in South Ossetia defined by international agreements, adding it’s “a matter of principle” for Russia.

At the same time Russia will not allow air reconnaissance activities in the area of responsibility of Russian peacekeepers in the Georgia-South Ossetia conflict zone, Nogovitsyn said - "I am just giving warning that we will not allow Georgia to conduct reconnaissance work with impunity. We reserve the right to respond appropriately."

Nogovitsyn said that NATO member countries are continuing to build up a naval group in the Black Sea, and currently there are nine vessels belonging to the alliance, including two from the U.S., one from Spain, Germany and Poland each, and four from Turkey.

"These actions are increasing the degree of tension in the region," stressed Nogovitsyn.

This is a very good article. This is showing where...

2008-08-29T16:38:00.000-07:00

This is a very good article. This is showing where the whole issue has ignited. In my opinion, at least. Read and enjoy

Abkhazia-Georgia, Kosovo-Serbia: parallel worlds?
Zeyno Baran
Thomas de Waal

In the Caucasus and the Balkans, two territories whose people broke free through war from a larger state their peoples saw as oppressive are now in constitutional limbo. What future have Kosovo Albanians and Abkhazians earned – independence, autonomy, federation? What justice is owed to their Serb and Georgian neighbours and former neighbours? Thomas de Waal and Zeyno Baran debate these issues.2 - 08 - 2006

Thomas de Waal, journalist and Caucasus expert: A fresh look
Zeyno Baran, Hudson Institute: Two different cases
Thomas de Waal: The sovereignty option
Zeyno Baran, Hudson Institute: Stability is the key

Thomas de Waal, journalist and Caucasus expert

A fresh look

Dear Zeyno,

I'm glad of the opportunity to pursue at greater length a debate we began in the Financial Times in May 2006 about Kosovo and the Caucasus.

It's a good moment to do so. United Nations-sponsored talks have at last begun on the final constitutional status of Kosovo and many western officials are openly saying they will end with Kosovo becoming independent of Serbia.

Moreover, these are worrying times in Georgia. The two moderate voices in the negotiations with Abkhazia and South Ossetia have been sidelined: Irakli Alasania, former senior presidential aide for Georgian-Abkhaz relations, was confirmed as Georgia's new ambassador to the United Nations on 18 July; and Giorgi Khaindrava, former minister for conflict resolution, was sacked on 21 July. The result of these maneouvres at the heart of Mikheil Saakashvili's government is to leave the bellicose, ambitious defence minister Irakli Okruashvili in charge of negotiating a settlement with Abkhazia and South Ossetia – at the very time that a fresh armed crisis has been brewing in the contested Kodori Gorge region inside Abkhaz territory.

Many western observers say that Kosovo is a special case. I disagree. Events set precedents, whether international leaders like it or not, and it's best to be prepared for them. The granting of independence for Kosovo – especially if it occurs without the consent of Serbia – will be a big event in international affairs. Let's hope that the final-status arrangement will protect the Serb minority and make the Balkans more stable. An outcome that grants independence on less rigorous terms would merely look like a reward for Kosovo's loyalty to the west.

Thomas de Waal is Caucasus editor of the Institute for War & Peace Reporting in London. He is co-author (with Carlotta Gall) of Chechnya: Calamity in the Caucasus (New York University Press, 1998) and author of Black Garden: Armenia and Azerbaijan through peace and war (New York University Press, 2003)

Also by Thomas de Waal in openDemocracy:

"The north Caucasus: politics or war"
(7 September 2004)

"Musa Shanib in the Caucasus: a political odyssey"
(12 October 2005)

"Abkhazia's dream of freedom"
(10 May 2006)

Thomas de Waal also writes on the connection between Kosovo and Abkhazia in "The Kosovo talks are about much more than just Kosovo" (Financial Times, 10 May 2006); Zeyno Baran's reply, "Kosovo precedent no solution for Caucasus region" was published in the same paper on 17 May [subscription only]
Now let's consider Abkhazia. It is true that all conflicts are different, yet there is a basic similarity: two minority peoples felt imprisoned inside a newly independent state against their will, after the break-up of a communist-era multi-ethnic federation.

I don't see a moral difference here. The sacking of Sukhumi/Sukhum in 1992 by Georgian irregular forces, including the deliberate burning of the Abkhaz national archive, was as despicable as the behaviour of Slobodan Milosevic's forces in Kosovo in 1998-99. And the other side of the coin – the vengeful ethnic cleansing of Georgians and Kosovo Serbs by victorious Abkhaz and Kosovo Albanians – is just as regrettable.

It is clear that Kosovo has advanced further in terms of its democratic institutions, but Abkhazia is performing well by the standards of the Caucasus. It has a president elected after an extremely demanding process, an opposition, a relatively free media and a strong civil-society sector. The Georgian minority in the Gali/Gal region has schooling in the Georgian language.

I see three differences on the ground:

the pre-war population of Kosovo had a clear Albanian majority, whereas in Abkhazia - a land of minorities - only around 17% of the population was Abkhaz and as much as 45% of the population was Georgian
Kosovo's overall population (2.5 million) is much bigger than Abkhazia's (around 250,000), making it a more viable potential state
under UN Security Council resolution 1244 of June 1999 (which actually reaffirms the territorial integrity of Serbia), Kosovo was placed under UN administration.
These factors give Kosovo a stronger case. But I am not arguing that Abkhazia will necessarily become independent – some kind of treaty arrangement may be the best final option. What I am arguing is that the Abkhaz have the right to make their case and that no final-status option should be ruled out in the negotiations.

Observing at first hand the unresolved conflicts of the Caucasus for the past decade, I have had an increasing feeling of surreality. The separatist territories have de facto broken away. Modern Abkhazia has nothing to do with modern Georgia and indeed is slowly being sucked into Russia – against the will of many of its citizens. The Abkhaz will agree to almost anything except a "return" to a state they have never felt part of. Meanwhile the Georgian position rests on one fundamental point: their territorial integrity of the modern state of Georgia within the borders of the old Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic.

The result is complete deadlock and hundreds of thousands of people living as miserable hostages to this deadlock.

My argument is that if we look at the conundrum anew, focusing on the right of Abkhazia to make an argument for sovereignty on the one hand and the right of return of the 250,000 Georgian internally-displaced people (IDPs) on the other, then we will have a much more positive and realistic process, which could end the agony. As in Kosovo.

Best wishes,

Tom

Georgia to sever diplomatic ties with Russia
<...

2008-08-29T16:35:00.000-07:00

Georgia to sever diplomatic ties with Russia

TBILISI, Aug. 29 (Xinhua) -- Georgia is recalling its embassy staff in Russia and cutting off diplomatic ties with Moscow in response to its recognition of two breakaway Georgian regions, Deputy Foreign Minister Grigol Vashadze said Friday.

Vashadze said the government is implementing a parliament resolution passed a day earlier, which included a call for the government to sever ties with Russia, the Caucasus Press news agency reported.

A Georgian Foreign Ministry spokesman said his country will withdraw its staff from Moscow on Saturday, but a consul will remain in Russia.

Russian news agencies have cited Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Nestrenko as criticizing the move and saying it will not benefit bilateral relations.

"We regret that the Georgian side has taken this step," Nesterenko said.

"The possible end of diplomatic relations with Georgia is not the choice of Moscow, and Tbilisi will have to bear the entire responsibility," said the diplomat.

"We must maintain contacts in the sphere of interests of average citizens," he said, adding that it will take a lot of efforts to restore bilateral relations.

Georgia's announcement comes on the heels of its decision to withdraw all but two diplomats from its embassy in Moscow after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev decided to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states earlier this week.

The two regions broke from central Georgian rule during wars in the early 1990s.

Georgia, a former Soviet republic and a staunch U.S. ally, has long been at odds with Russia over the two breakaway regions and its own bids to join NATO and the European Union.

Earlier this month, Georgia sent in troops to reclaim South Ossetia, triggering a military counter-offensive from Russia. The conflict ended with a ceasefire agreement between Tbilisi and Moscow brokered by France.

The West is categorically criticizing Russians in ...

2008-08-29T05:25:00.000-07:00

The West is categorically criticizing Russians in the recent weeks. Whether it is a planned strategy, or a confusion over too compllicated situaion, God knows. NATO is breaking any ties with Russia, EU wants to impose sanctions. Georgians asked to call the meeting of the Security COuncil ofthe United Natiions just to again publicly ciriticize the Russian Government. Russians proposed to invite Abkhazian and South Ossetian representatives for the discussions at the table, but the US said categorically know.
Does anyone think that Russians will sit an listen to all of this, and just nod their heads?

Iranian President has already made a statement abo...

2008-08-28T20:48:00.000-07:00

Iranian President has already made a statement about this relations in this region, and he said that " the world is not only consisting of USA and NATO"

I think countries should make everythign to keep peace and not make statements to each other, because if USA is blaming someone, then other would blame USA, and other questions and other problems start to be very big and it's not going to do any good to anyone

Any war will bring misery to people

2008-08-28T20:43:00.000-07:00

Any war will bring misery to people

I don't know politics much but think about small c...

2008-08-28T17:36:00.000-07:00

I don't know politics much but think about small country of Georgia and the "big bear" - Russia. The question here is - why other "big bears" are not listening to their fellow brother?

THe USA, Germany, France are already strongly cond...

2008-08-28T16:07:00.000-07:00

THe USA, Germany, France are already strongly condemning the Russia's policy towards Georgia and soon we may see others to join.

Yes, the conflict did not end, it's started with a...

2008-08-28T16:05:00.000-07:00

Yes, the conflict did not end, it's started with a new wave of strenght, now at the higher levels...

Georgia and Russia. Georgia and Abkhazia and Ossetia. What is wrong?

The European Council and USA are promoting the dem...

I like this statement - "Don't tease the bear beca...

All these conflicts around the world just makes th...

I think initial reactions of the European governme...

Yeah, right. Russia is wrong, and NATO is right. N...

It was interesting for me to learn bout Swiss posi...

I agree, and like in Middle East - endless meeting...

It's difficult to believe that the small (of cours...

And now all the diplomatic relations between Georg...

Theyjust continue the "fight of words" The...

The latest UN security council was about this: see...

Yeah, not real good...But can anybody predict abou...

News Send to friend | Print versionGeorgia...

This is a very good article. This is showing where...

Georgia to sever diplomatic ties with Russia <...

The West is categorically criticizing Russians in ...

Iranian President has already made a statement abo...

Any war will bring misery to people

I don't know politics much but think about small c...

THe USA, Germany, France are already strongly cond...

Yes, the conflict did not end, it's started with a...

Theyjust continue the "fight of words"

The...

News
Send to friend | Print version
Georgia...

Georgia to sever diplomatic ties with Russia
<...